How to extract SMT lumped inductors and capacitors from a schematic to EM simulation using AWR software?

Which tool are you using? Checking in case I need to move this to a different forum...

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I'm using AWR with a schematic simulation. Then EM Extract tool with AXIEM solver is adopted to extract EM model. 

OK - I moved to the AWR Design Environment forum - as that's more focused on topics related to this tool.

If I am understanding this correctly, you are wanting to use extraction for simulation of parts of your schematic and either closed form models or measured data for SMT elements that are also part of your schematic?  And you want all of those elements to be part of the same schematic layout.  Does that capture the challenge you are facing?

If this is the case, then you can use extraction on selected elements within your network to make sure you get an accurate EM-based simulation of those sets of elements, by setting those elements to be part of the extraction.  To do this, you would go to the Model Options tab of the Element Options dialog for each element you want to include in your extraction, and set the EM Extraction Options to "Enable."

In the case of elements that represent SMT parts that you don't want to have as part of your extraction, you would uncheck this option for those elements.  Furthermore, you can specify an SMT layout for that part by opening the Layout tab of its Element Options, and specifying it there.  Before doing that, I would suggest that you bring our library of layout packages into the project by first going to the Layout tab, right-clicking Cell Libraries > Import Cell Library, then browsing to the Examples directory from your AWR install area (...Program Files (x86)\AWR\AWRDE\xx\Examples\).  The Standard Chip Components.gds, for example, will contain standard SMT layouts such as 0201, 0402, 0603, etc., while the other gds files in that library include SOTs and other common kinds of packages.  Once you have your desired library(ies) imported, they will show up in the Layout tab of your Element Options dialog, and you can choose from among them to represent your element's layout.

I would also want to point out to you that you may be able to choose a packaged part from a set (or sets) of Vendor Library parts, which are often represented as S2P and/or MDIF files, with the correct layout representation, ready to insert into your schematic / schematic layout.  To find which vendor parts are available, you can go to the Elements tab > Circuit Elements > Libraries, and then going into the Parts by Type or Parts by Vendor categories.

Hopefully this is of some assistance to you.  If you still have questions, or if I have misunderstood something, please let me know, or you can also feel free to go to support.cadence.com, and submit a support case there.  Filing a support case gives you the additional flexibility to attach project files, which assists us in better understanding your specific application, and also assists us in being able to do troubleshooting.

Thanks for your detailed reply. Actually, closed-form inductors and capacitors are utilized in schematic simulation, and they are laid out according to Standard Chip Components.gds. But I found that EM extraction doesn't define chip components as shown in the properties. Should I use other elements to replace them or alternative methods?

I apologize; I am having an issue understanding what you are saying when you say "EM extraction doesn't define chip components as shown in the properties."

Are you saying that you want the surface mount parts to be part of the extraction?

I'm not sure I've seen customers have a need for that, since most SMTs do have data models, data sheets, etc., and that this data would be preferred when building simulated data, instead of performing an EM analysis of the packaged part.

As a result, the extraction model I'm familiar with would be to extract elements apart from the packaged parts, and leave the packaged parts in the circuit as non-extracted parts.  If the vendor provides them as .s2p files, then they would appear in the schematic as data files.  If they are provided as a model, then they appear as subcircuits.  The Layout tab covers how they appear in your layout, and the Model Options tab determines whether they are used in the extraction.

Let me know if I am misunderstanding something.  If you have a screenshot you can show, that may help as well.

Yes, I originally intended to make the surface mount part of the extraction because the detailed SMT values or models are not fixed.

I tried to upload some screenshots, but an error occurred on this website.

According to your suggestion, I should specify SMT components at first and use their given model in EM simulation, right? If I am understanding correctly, only microstrip lines are extracted. Then I can run the EM simulation to optimize the microstrip parameters.

Yes, that is what I would do.

You can make the value of the SMTs a part of your optimization as well, maybe by (at the beginning of the process) setting their L or C value to be optimizable (and then putting in the full model when you get much closer to an optimized result).

Or, you can optimize one of the MDIFs that vendors (like ATC or AVX, or others) make available.

Or if you have a collection of parts (with S2P data files) to choose from, you can use the script we provide (Scripts > Data > Generate MDIF Files) to make an MDIF file from the collection of data files, and use that as part of your optimization.