Frustration in getting bugs fixed

If it's Orcad or Allegro, just open a support ticket with Cadence.  The Cadence promo (free Orcad Standard for one year maintenance) probably isn't making their lives any easier.

Curious if the bug is with one of EMA's products or if it's with 16.6 or 17.2?

CIP got knocked down after Digikey and Mouser both changed their server API before anyone was prepared for it.

I do not think you read the thread. I have opened tickets(CCR's) with Cadence. The bugs are in 17.2 .

There are many bugs I have submitted to Cadence.

1. Unlimited cursor  works if you select a footprint RMB and select move. If you just select a footprint and just use the mouse to move footprint  it the unlimited cursor disappears. Worked fine in 16.6. This is part of a CCR that fixed a number of display issues(ghosting while moving footprints , footprints disappearing during move,) but failed to fix this problem. I have been asking for months and the repose is I will ask engineering.

2. I use page up and page down for zoom in and zoom out . There are times when you go off the canvas and for example change the layer and then page up page down not longer work when you go back to the canvas. Also the scroll button, when you go back to the canvas after changing the layers,  still changes layers on the other screen. Worked fine 16.6.

3. During routing of traces or adding vias the trace or via highlights as if there is an error but after you finish the operation there are no errors. Also the other is true DRC errors occur but do not occur during routing only after the operation is completed.

4. Whenever constraint manager is open and you hit undo constraint manager closes.

5. 10 Minutes between backups are too long and much data us lost of the program crashes.

There are many others but these are just a few of them.

"1. Unlimited cursor  works if you select a footprint RMB and select move. If you just select a footprint and just use the mouse to move footprint  it the unlimited cursor disappears. Worked fine in 16.6. This is part of a CCR that fixed a number of display issues(ghosting while moving footprints , footprints disappearing during move,) but failed to fix this problem."

Ok, first.  Have to confess I don't use it...  There's an align command that works great.   But, to write a CAD Application, you cannot write directly to graphics because you could be on a machine with Intel graphics, AMD graphics, NVidia Graphics, or a VM on a Mac.  Then there's Windows 7, Windows 10, Windows Server...  So, the first challenge for any CAD company is to find a graphics library that saves them years of writing their own, that third party makes an effort to ensure everything still works when Windows 11 comes out.  Adapt to graphics hardware of today while not borking last year's hardware.  I believe Cadence has been using the same third party library that supports the same look and feel across Sun Solaris, MS Windows, AIX and Linux up until 16.6 and back to, gosh, the late 90's when I started using this.   The new 3D capabilities forced them to change to a new graphics software library.  

This was highlighted when Microsoft changed underlying code with a Windows 10 fall creator update and wrecked screen refresh for Capture CIS 17.2 running on Windows 10.  As much as this affected hardware teams in Redmond's Microsoft Studio B facility that I spent time at, Cadence had to wait a couple of months for a fix from their graphics library vendor.

I can't reproduce what you are seeing on my desktop.

Knowing that we both use the same Cadence application and Windows 10 is pretty common, what I can't reproduce is your graphics drivers.  Or if you are running on a VM.  Or if you have a good graphics card that can perform BITBLT updates in hardware or if they have to be done at the VM level.

Also curious if you have set the User Pref Editor> Cursor> infinite_cursor_bug_nt> flag to yes.

Bug Number 2. 

My hand is always on the mouse.  Why would I do that?   Could it be that there isn't anything Cadence can fix themselves?

Bug Number 3.

My paycheck comes from engineers who don't want to spend more than 15 minutes learning anything (which is amazing job security for me as Allegro means I'm basically "The Flash" superhero for them.   No one else attempts real-time DRCs.  If it's a graphics library problem or a low-priority bug, we just have to wait.

Bug Number 4.  "4. Whenever constraint manager is open and you hit undo constraint manager closes."

It's designed to work that way.  

Bug Number 5.  "5. 10 Minutes between backups are too long and much data us lost of the program crashes"

Did you open  User Preferences> File_Management> Autosave>  and set a different interval?   I think the default is 30 minutes.  P?DS, our official environment throws away hours of effort every chance it gets (ground stitching vias?  Extra vias?  Here, let me delete those for you...)  I'm sorry I can't hide my feelings about that.

For those who didn't read the whole thread, 16.6 and 17.2 can refer to Orcad layout, Allegro Layout, Orcad Library Builder and CIP.

The first two, feel free to raise those issues directly with Cadence.  EMA support tends to get bogged down with newbie questions for those who bothered to go through training and those who are self-taught, like I was.   Orcad Library Builder, and CIP are offered by Cadence but are developed by EMA.  I don't know what happens if you ask Cadence about them.

I haven't found a better QA department outside of Cadence.   Even EMA's is pretty damn good.  There are many ways I can crash a MGC Pads session in five seconds.  Same bugs since 2010.

But, this isn't an iPhone.   They do not have control over what the graphics people or Microsoft do after they release it.

Things could be adequately good enough, considering how many variables we inflict on Cadence software.

"1. Unlimited cursor  works if you select a footprint RMB and select move. If you just select a footprint and just use the mouse to move footprint  it the unlimited cursor disappears. Worked fine in 16.6. This is part of a CCR that fixed a number of display issues(ghosting while moving footprints , footprints disappearing during move,) but failed to fix this problem."

Ok, first.  Have to confess I don't use it...  There's an align command that works great.   But, to write a CAD Application, you cannot write directly to graphics because you could be on a machine with Intel graphics, AMD graphics, NVidia Graphics, or a VM on a Mac.  Then there's Windows 7, Windows 10, Windows Server...  So, the first challenge for any CAD company is to find a graphics library that saves them years of writing their own, that third party makes an effort to ensure everything still works when Windows 11 comes out.  Adapt to graphics hardware of today while not borking last year's hardware.  I believe Cadence has been using the same third party library that supports the same look and feel across Sun Solaris, MS Windows, AIX and Linux up until 16.6 and back to, gosh, the late 90's when I started using this.   The new 3D capabilities forced them to change to a new graphics software library.  

This was highlighted when Microsoft changed underlying code with a Windows 10 fall creator update and wrecked screen refresh for Capture CIS 17.2 running on Windows 10.  As much as this affected hardware teams in Redmond's Microsoft Studio B facility that I spent time at, Cadence had to wait a couple of months for a fix from their graphics library vendor.

I can't reproduce what you are seeing on my desktop.

Knowing that we both use the same Cadence application and Windows 10 is pretty common, what I can't reproduce is your graphics drivers.  Or if you are running on a VM.  Or if you have a good graphics card that can perform BITBLT updates in hardware or if they have to be done at the VM level.

Also curious if you have set the User Pref Editor> Cursor> infinite_cursor_bug_nt> flag to yes.

Lenny - It worked fine in 16.6 . Broke in 17.2 . Tech support can also duplicate it . yes I have the flag set. Not sure of the purpose to all  your comments. If it worked before and works if you use the move command  why is it such a problem to fix ?

I am not on Windows 10 only 8.1.

Bug Number 2. 

My hand is always on the mouse.  Why would I do that?   Could it be that there isn't anything Cadence can fix themselves?


Lenny - Your point ? I do not understand your response. It worked fine in 16.6 it was broken in 17.2.

Bug Number 3.

My paycheck comes from engineers who don't want to spend more than 15 minutes learning anything (which is amazing job security for me as Allegro means I'm basically "The Flash" superhero for them.   No one else attempts real-time DRCs.  If it's a graphics library problem or a low-priority bug, we just have to wait.

Lenny - What do you mean no one else attempts real time DRC's. Pads did it . it should not be a low property bug as it wastes lots of time moving traces without showing the error until you are done with the operation.

Bug Number 4.  "4. Whenever constraint manager is open and you hit undo constraint manager closes."

It's designed to work that way.  

And it causes much time in having to open the screen each time and go back to where you were. Just because it was designed to work that way does not not mean it is correct.

Bug Number 5.  "5. 10 Minutes between backups are too long and much data us lost of the program crashes"

Did you open  User Preferences> File_Management> Autosave>  and set a different interval?   I think the default is 30 minutes.  P?DS, our official environment throws away hours of effort every chance it gets (ground stitching vias?  Extra vias?  Here, let me delete those for you...)  I'm sorry I can't hide my feelings about that.

Lenny - Yes I have 10 minutes which  is the least you can set it. Do not see any reason for the rest of your comment.

For those who didn't read the whole thread, 16.6 and 17.2 can refer to Orcad layout, Allegro Layout, Orcad Library Builder and CIP.

The first two, feel free to raise those issues directly with Cadence.  EMA support tends to get bogged down with newbie questions for those who bothered to go through training and those who are self-taught, like I was.   Orcad Library Builder, and CIP are offered by Cadence but are developed by EMA.  I don't know what happens if you ask Cadence about them.

I haven't found a better QA department outside of Cadence.   Even EMA's is pretty damn good.  There are many ways I can crash a MGC Pads session in five seconds.  Same bugs since 2010.

But, this isn't an iPhone.   They do not have control over what the graphics people or Microsoft do after they release it.

Things could be adequately good enough, considering how many variables we inflict on Cadence software.


Lenny - I do not see  the purpose of some of your responses. I have legitimate bugs and have a hard time trying to find out when or  if they will be fixed. None of your responses helped solve my problem.

Lennie, You are correct on the full screen cursor in 17.2 basically blanking when you click a footprint and move it, In 16.6 it worked as expected. I don't find it objectionable but as you indicate it does not work the same (Minor Bug )

On Item 2 and using hot keys for zoom in and out, I have keys I & O assigned but honestly I never use them. The hot keys for zooming panning etc are an extra step for me. I just use the mouse for this or draw a stroke with the mouse. All faster than hitting a hot key IMHO. Again you are correct in the operation in 16.6. (Minor Bug ). There was an issue with hottkeys in allegro not working correctly a few ccr's back, you may have run into that issue while using them for the zoom functions. The basic issue is that a hot key would stop working.

On item 3, I don't see in 17.2 so47 anything unusual while routing. The trace highlights as expected if I decide to route a new trace in or tee off an existing trace the highlighting looks ok. While routing it is possible to generate errors and it is somewhat mode dependent. If you are in "Bubble Off mode" and route over something that will generate a drc a bowtie shows up in real time to indicate you will have a drc. When bubble is enabled and you are routing in shove or hug then the trace should avoid objects. It suffices to say that if while routing you encounter an object that has no net name assigned then that "BowTie" hint wont show up.

Item 4, I am not seeing the undo close the constraint manager. I went into it and changed a physical constraint set for a trace width. Selected undo and it undid what i changed but did not close the constraint manager. I created a physical Cset deleted it then selected Undo and again it worked as expected. Constraint manager did not close. It is possible that I am not hitting the combination you are using, maybe give a bit more detail ?

Item 5. I don't use the backup function, but what I do is save the design to a new name manually at regular intervals and then save as an overwrite to the original design name. I never ran into an issue doing this. My preference is manual saving..  will try the auto and see how it goes.

To echo what Rob indicated. Allegro and in particular capture was dire on windows 10. I had put a ticket into EMA but they couldn't resolve it as it was beyond the norm. Win10 honestly
is just a darn IPHONE IMHO. Many cad vendors ran into big issues with drawing speed and other oddities. Only recently MS released patches and capture works better but it is still slower than running on a WIN7 Box. I had a nice NVS310 video card that worked good on 7 that I had running on win 10 and Allegro was slow. I went back to a way older AMD radeon
and it out preforms the Nvidia. I saw a huge increase in speed basically instantly in Allegro running under the latest ver of win 10. Maybe Cortana might be able to route my next board
she seems to know everything else ... LOL :)

Paul. 

Item 1 - While it may be a minor bug to you , since you do not use it . Its a major bug for me since it worked before and I do use it.

Item 2 - I did not like the mouse method in Pads and Do not like it in Allegro. My preference. I am left handed and using the page-up page-Page down works fine for me. The real problem is those keys sometimes work and sometimes do not. The problem is when you go to another screen and back to the canvas the software does not always switch. This was fine in 16.6. I was the one that issued that CCR and then fixed a number of items but not all of them. The other problem is when you are routing and go to switch layers in the options screen with the scroll button, when you go back to the canvas the scroll button still works in the option screen.

Item 3 - A typical example is when  drill to trace errors are not displayed until after the route is completed. This makes it very time consuming to correct the trace distance without the trace changing  color when the error is corrected. I have submitted a number of examples of areas where during routing a trace or via changes color, indicating an error and yet when you finish the operation there is no error.

Item 4 - You need to be in a screen that shows the trace length and while routing a trace , if you hit the undo key  constraint manager closes.

Item 5. - Its difficult to makes sure you save a file at intervals that benefit it the program crashes that is why I use the backup function. Unfortunately 10 minutes is a lot of routing time so I suggested changing it to 1 minute minimum.  

I am only using windows 8.1 since 10 has so much bloatware I do not want to switch.

I fully understand the complexities of trying to write software for different video drivers and operating systems. All of these bugs are not related to video problems.

My original reason for this post was  once the CCR is issued it is very difficult to get information on when or if the bug will be fixed.

Item 1 - While it may be a minor bug to you , since you do not use it . Its a major bug for me since it worked before and I do use it.

Item 2 - I did not like the mouse method in Pads and Do not like it in Allegro. My preference. I am left handed and using the page-up page-Page down works fine for me. The real problem is those keys sometimes work and sometimes do not. The problem is when you go to another screen and back to the canvas the software does not always switch. This was fine in 16.6. I was the one that issued that CCR and then fixed a number of items but not all of them. The other problem is when you are routing and go to switch layers in the options screen with the scroll button, when you go back to the canvas the scroll button still works in the option screen.

Item 3 - A typical example is when  drill to trace errors are not displayed until after the route is completed. This makes it very time consuming to correct the trace distance without the trace changing  color when the error is corrected. I have submitted a number of examples of areas where during routing a trace or via changes color, indicating an error and yet when you finish the operation there is no error.

Item 4 - You need to be in a screen that shows the trace length and while routing a trace , if you hit the undo key  constraint manager closes.

Item 5. - Its difficult to makes sure you save a file at intervals that benefit it the program crashes that is why I use the backup function. Unfortunately 10 minutes is a lot of routing time so I suggested changing it to 1 minute minimum.  

I am only using windows 8.1 since 10 has so much bloatware I do not want to switch.

I fully understand the complexities of trying to write software for different video drivers and operating systems. All of these bugs are not related to video problems.

My original reason for this post was  once the CCR is issued it is very difficult to get information on when or if the bug will be fixed.

"You need 

Lennie said:

Item 4 - You need to be in a screen that shows the trace length and while routing a trace , if you hit the undo key  constraint manager closes.

Isn't there an indicator in the lower right part of the screen that shows relative length compared to the net group?

I'm pretty sure matched length for DDR interfaces doesn't require the constraint manager to be open all the time.

Wish I could help but I traded Orcad Pro for Allegro Designer.  I know there are four different ways they handle matched length based on your license options.

Lennie said:

My original reason for this post was  once the CCR is issued it is very difficult to get information on when or if the bug will be fixed.

My issue is I'm not sure what EMA could do about this as they have little influence over the priority of issues in the Cadence CCR database.

While I have compassion for anyone who is left handed, I cringe when I see people blame the application for graphics issues. 

A display driver update has been life altering for me on several applications. 

While I try to do as much of my design in Allegro as possible, most boards get translated to and released from P*DS, where a painfully small number of databases can generate ODB without having to read the ASCII files to figure out what library part is corrupted this time.

Of all the bugs in the world, I'm not sure what you hope to gain by criticizing EMA.  You aren't blocked from releasing your design. 

Lennie

Item 4 on your list makes no sense to me. Depending on your Allegro level you don't need to have the CM open to monitor trace length. If you want to see etch length as you route try this macro. There is also a user preference to turn it on or you can enter a command, see etch length

funckey W "add connect; etch length"

In the pro version of Orcad / Allegro there is a CM analysis mode called "Total Etch Length" While it is beyond belief that this is not included in Orcad Std I believe it will pop up a Heads up display to indicate the constraint. What version of the tool are you using ?.

On item 3, Was there a particular reason you were doing hole to trace DRC ?. Typically I have this turned off. Reason is that my drills for padstacks and vias have all been checked aka designed in at the padstack level, so there is no need to check. Maybe I'm missing something on the hole check ?

I actively use the Full Screen Cursor and it does blank out in 17.2 while doing a drag operation of a footprint. In 16x it did not do this. if you select Move then click the footprint the full screen cursor does not blank out in 17.2

On the CCR I don't think any SW vendor is going to give you an ETA for a fix. I do think Cadence does a very good job of including a CCR list of fixes with each incremental release.

BTW are you using a dual monitor setup ?

Yes I have dual monitor.

When you are routing a group of nets that are matched length with a specific tolerance its much easier to see the lengths of the entire group in constraint manager for me  . The little screen only shows the length or if electrical rules are set the tolerance. Regardless I see no reason constraint manager to close when you are routing a trace and hit undo. When routing lots of matched length nets or diff pairs with matched lengths you need constraint manager open. Mentor pads router has a much better method of providing this information. It has a spreadsheet with the groups of traces that need to be matched length and it displays the trace lengths of all traces and updates them on the fly while you are routing. For me this makes making matched length routing much easier. The closing of constraint manager while you are trying to route and match the lengths of a group to me wastes a lot of time.

I am using hole to trace a very tight laser via design . With unused pads you need to set the drill the anything and drill to drill to keep copper a certain distance from the drill. When doing laser vias boards you also need to make sure the copper is 6 mils from any laser drill  and 8 mils from any thru hole drill. Again while you may not need to use the feature but the software should still flag it as an error while routing . I agree on larger boards this is not a problem but on tight laser boards it is.

its has been 6 months since I sent in the CCR where they fixed a number of items regarding moving footprints and ghosting, disappearing and full cursor problem. They fixed everything except the full cursor problem. I have asked a number of times and tech supports states I will ask engineering and then I never hear anything. The CCR states nothing about this still being a bug and I wonder if they are even aware the problem still exists. I even get responses like its fixed in the latest version and then ask exactly what did they fix as the CCR is not listed and no response.

While I agree a SW vendor may not be able to give you an ETA when a bug may be fixed an idea that they understand the bug and if its in the que to be fixed would be nice. We have neither.

The full cursor problem has nothing to do with a video driver problem or windows 10. If the software can display full cursor correctly when you select a component and RMB move then it should be able to do that when you just drag the component.

Lennie said:

The full cursor problem has nothing to do with a video driver problem or windows 10. If the software can display full cursor correctly when you select a component and RMB move then it should be able to do that when you just drag the component.

During this drag just hit the 'esc' key and the cursor appears again.

And I agree with you about bugs, for example version 17.2 compared with the latest 16.6 release is imho a step back in GUI and speed. Tested on both W7 and W10 machines with dedicated graphics cards etc, so no system related issues.