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PSS and HB vs. Transient having touchstone models from HFSS

HamidKhatibi

Hello every one

I have designed a 100GHz oscillator and in order to see how much power it can produce I run different analyses. The issue is that the output voltage is quite different when I use different analyses. The frequencies are similar but the amplitudes are totally different. I have used PSS with harmonic balance and also probe-based HB (these two simulation give very similar results). However when I use Transient, the amplitude of the node voltages is quite different (the frequency is very similar).

Which one can I trust?

Thank you very much,

Hamid

PS: I have couple of transmission lines whose model are coming from EM simulation in HFSS.

Parents

  • Hi Twana.

    Thank you  very much for your response. Unfortunately as a PhD student I have no access to those links.

    The version is : 11.1.0.722.isr24

    I have already read your useful note about the nport's settings and I have applied them in it.

    Thank you very much for your helpful responses.

    Hamid

    The netlist is:

    // Generated for: spectre
    // Generated on: Dec  4 08:22:54 2014
    // Design library name: 94GHz
    // Design cell name: BJT_Osc94GHz_NoYs_DCCapVer5_TL4u30u
    // Design view name: schematic
    simulator lang=spectre
    global 0
    parameters Vdc2=880m Length=2.5 R3=1307 R2=51k R1=51k C1=4.88 C2=1.645 \
        C3=67.88 Q=50 Cs=44 RL=50
    include "/research/afshari-new/hk558/Cadence/ST_BICMOS130/Corners/corners.scs"

    // Library name: 94GHz
    // Cell name: BJT_Osc94GHz_NoYs_DCCapVer5_TL4u30u
    // View name: schematic
    C42 (net2 0) capacitor c=C1*1e-15
    C1 (net2 net023) capacitor c=1u
    C40 (net020 0) capacitor c=Cs*1e-15
    C44 (net016 0) capacitor c=C2*1e-15
    C43 (net016 net2) capacitor c=C3*1e-15
    Q5 (net20 net021 net020 0) npnvhsM2 l=Length*1e-6 nbc=4 nbb=6 nbe=3 mult=1 \
            mismatch=1 sh=1 lpe=0 dic_mdev=0 dib_mdev=0 soa=1
    R22 (net2 net016) resistor r=R3
    R23 (net2 0) resistor r=R1
    R24 (net016 0) resistor r=R2
    R21 (net020 0) resistor r=Q/(6.28*180*Cs*1e-6)
    R19 (net08 net019) resistor r=RL
    V9 (net17 0) vsource dc=Vdc2 type=dc
    V8 (net08 0) vsource dc=1.6 type=dc
    L21 (net17 net021) inductor l=10u
    L25 (0 net020) inductor l=10u
    I193 (net2 0) isource type=pulse val0=100.0u val1=0 rise=100f fall=100f \
            width=20p
    NPORT8 ( net016 0 net021 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_190u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_150u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT9 ( net08 0 net019 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_550u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_170u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT10 ( net20 0 net019 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_5u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_5u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT5 ( net019 0 net023 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_130u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_360u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    simulatorOptions options reltol=1e-3 vabstol=1e-6 iabstol=1e-12 temp=27 \
        tnom=27 scalem=1.0 scale=1.0 gmin=1e-12 rforce=1 maxnotes=5 maxwarns=5 \
        digits=5 cols=80 pivrel=1e-3 sensfile="../psf/sens.output" \
        checklimitdest=psf rawfmt=psfxl
    tran tran stop=1n errpreset=conservative outputstart=.1n \
        write="spectre.ic" writefinal="spectre.fc" method=gear2only \
        annotate=status maxiters=5
    finalTimeOP info what=oppoint where=rawfile
    dcOp dc write="spectre.dc" maxiters=150 maxsteps=10000 annotate=status
    dcOpInfo info what=oppoint where=rawfile
    modelParameter info what=models where=rawfile
    element info what=inst where=rawfile
    outputParameter info what=output where=rawfile
    designParamVals info what=parameters where=rawfile
    primitives info what=primitives where=rawfile
    subckts info what=subckts  where=rawfile
    save R19:1 L21:1 V8:p
    saveOptions options save=allpub

Reply

  • Hi Twana.

    Thank you  very much for your response. Unfortunately as a PhD student I have no access to those links.

    The version is : 11.1.0.722.isr24

    I have already read your useful note about the nport's settings and I have applied them in it.

    Thank you very much for your helpful responses.

    Hamid

    The netlist is:

    // Generated for: spectre
    // Generated on: Dec  4 08:22:54 2014
    // Design library name: 94GHz
    // Design cell name: BJT_Osc94GHz_NoYs_DCCapVer5_TL4u30u
    // Design view name: schematic
    simulator lang=spectre
    global 0
    parameters Vdc2=880m Length=2.5 R3=1307 R2=51k R1=51k C1=4.88 C2=1.645 \
        C3=67.88 Q=50 Cs=44 RL=50
    include "/research/afshari-new/hk558/Cadence/ST_BICMOS130/Corners/corners.scs"

    // Library name: 94GHz
    // Cell name: BJT_Osc94GHz_NoYs_DCCapVer5_TL4u30u
    // View name: schematic
    C42 (net2 0) capacitor c=C1*1e-15
    C1 (net2 net023) capacitor c=1u
    C40 (net020 0) capacitor c=Cs*1e-15
    C44 (net016 0) capacitor c=C2*1e-15
    C43 (net016 net2) capacitor c=C3*1e-15
    Q5 (net20 net021 net020 0) npnvhsM2 l=Length*1e-6 nbc=4 nbb=6 nbe=3 mult=1 \
            mismatch=1 sh=1 lpe=0 dic_mdev=0 dib_mdev=0 soa=1
    R22 (net2 net016) resistor r=R3
    R23 (net2 0) resistor r=R1
    R24 (net016 0) resistor r=R2
    R21 (net020 0) resistor r=Q/(6.28*180*Cs*1e-6)
    R19 (net08 net019) resistor r=RL
    V9 (net17 0) vsource dc=Vdc2 type=dc
    V8 (net08 0) vsource dc=1.6 type=dc
    L21 (net17 net021) inductor l=10u
    L25 (0 net020) inductor l=10u
    I193 (net2 0) isource type=pulse val0=100.0u val1=0 rise=100f fall=100f \
            width=20p
    NPORT8 ( net016 0 net021 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_190u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_150u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT9 ( net08 0 net019 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_550u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_170u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT10 ( net20 0 net019 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_5u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_5u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    NPORT5 ( net019 0 net023 0) nport interp=spline fmax=3000G fdelta=.1G \
            maxn=33 imptrunc=1e-6 thermalnoise=no usewindow=yes \
            datafmt=touchstone \
            file="/research/afshari-new/hk558/sNp/TL4u30u_130u_HFSSDesign1.s2p" \
            romdatfile="TL4u30u_360u" dcextrap=unwrap hfextrap=linear \
            passivity=enforce pabstol=1e-06 interp=spline thermalnoise=no
    simulatorOptions options reltol=1e-3 vabstol=1e-6 iabstol=1e-12 temp=27 \
        tnom=27 scalem=1.0 scale=1.0 gmin=1e-12 rforce=1 maxnotes=5 maxwarns=5 \
        digits=5 cols=80 pivrel=1e-3 sensfile="../psf/sens.output" \
        checklimitdest=psf rawfmt=psfxl
    tran tran stop=1n errpreset=conservative outputstart=.1n \
        write="spectre.ic" writefinal="spectre.fc" method=gear2only \
        annotate=status maxiters=5
    finalTimeOP info what=oppoint where=rawfile
    dcOp dc write="spectre.dc" maxiters=150 maxsteps=10000 annotate=status
    dcOpInfo info what=oppoint where=rawfile
    modelParameter info what=models where=rawfile
    element info what=inst where=rawfile
    outputParameter info what=output where=rawfile
    designParamVals info what=parameters where=rawfile
    primitives info what=primitives where=rawfile
    subckts info what=subckts  where=rawfile
    save R19:1 L21:1 V8:p
    saveOptions options save=allpub

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