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  3. DC Bias point of Spice model in EM Extract (AWR MWO)

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DC Bias point of Spice model in EM Extract (AWR MWO)

mjgaa
mjgaa over 1 year ago

Dear all, 

I have a simulation of an amplifier circuit (PCB) that consists of some lumped parameters and a nonlinear device. 

As soon as the EM Extract block is enabled the DC bias (DCVS block) voltage does not apply any current and thus the transistor model (SPICE) does not work. 

How can I fix this problem? (For now I include DC into my simulation) 

Second problem but not as important as the first one is that as soon as I hit run the EM Model gets overwritten and therefore I cannot change things before simulation. 

What I want is to set the ports to connect to lower and draw a GND plane beneath the circuit because I have 4L substrate.

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  • mjgaa
    mjgaa over 1 year ago

    @David thanks for your reply both of your tips solved my problems! I will try to make an example ready for you as soon as I can. Maybe it takes until monday due to some other work todo. 

    Here are some screenshots that might help: 

    As you can see I removed most of the bias structure and for testing on the other side I added a line just to see that there were no meshing / layout issues as you suggested. 

    I added one supply just to see if it changes something and this is of course only the left half of the circuit for demonstration. 
    Could it be that the GND port is not working? Or the device is not connected in Layout? 
    Also I am wondering why the annotation is not given for all EM simulated components. 

    This is the footprint it consists of 4 pieces: yellow = Leads, blue = top solder, light blue = copper, pink = package. Is this right? Should yellow be some kind of EM port?

    MISC: 
    1. DC is included in all simulations as far as I see 

    Thank you.

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  • mjgaa
    mjgaa over 1 year ago

    @David thanks for your reply both of your tips solved my problems! I will try to make an example ready for you as soon as I can. Maybe it takes until monday due to some other work todo. 

    Here are some screenshots that might help: 

    As you can see I removed most of the bias structure and for testing on the other side I added a line just to see that there were no meshing / layout issues as you suggested. 

    I added one supply just to see if it changes something and this is of course only the left half of the circuit for demonstration. 
    Could it be that the GND port is not working? Or the device is not connected in Layout? 
    Also I am wondering why the annotation is not given for all EM simulated components. 

    This is the footprint it consists of 4 pieces: yellow = Leads, blue = top solder, light blue = copper, pink = package. Is this right? Should yellow be some kind of EM port?

    MISC: 
    1. DC is included in all simulations as far as I see 

    Thank you.

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  • David Webster
    David Webster over 1 year ago in reply to mjgaa

    Hi mjgaa,

    The first thing I would try is to remove the BFP740F sub circuit from the extraction.  Keep in mind that when extracting, the elements from the schematic that are extracted will no longer use their schematic model, and instead will be replaced by the EM simulation results. For the BFP740F part, I assume that would be the TSFP-4-1 package, if it even has a layout associated with the spice model.

    Also make sure you are simulating DC (0 Hz) in the extract block settings. In the extract block, if override options value is set to "yes" the extraction block settings will override anything you set in the EM document manually each time you simulate.

    The current annotation you are using is the current at each element in the schematic. When extracting multiple elements, they essentially turn into a black box with inputs and outputs into this black box and is no longer considered a "schematic element". You will lose the fidelity at each individual node as the EM document has no concept of individual schematic connections.

    Typically, when you are simulating using extraction, you do not have GND connected directly to an extracted element as you have, but this should still simulate fine. You would model something like a via or small value inductor. You can also place a 0 Ohm resistor between the extracted element and ground if you want to have a direct connection and still get the DC current value at the GND node.

    I've attached a picture of some scenarios you can setup to get the DC current annotation to display at the ground node. Essentially either adding a 0 Ohm resistor or any other schematic element l like a via would suffice. The second is bringing in the extracted block as a sub circuit into a top level schematic.

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