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  3. S-parameters simulation and characteristic impedance simulation...

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S-parameters simulation and characteristic impedance simulation issue

Ronic
Ronic over 3 years ago

Hi,

for a physics calorimeter design project (for which the calorimeter could be made partly with pieces of PCB), I started some very simple PCB simulations with SIGRITY in order to get the S-parameters.

I started with a simple 100 ohms microstrip line on a 2 sides PCB (1 for the line, 1 for the ground place) with 2 SMA connectors for connection with external SMA cables.

the 2 ports on the SIGRITY simulation are the 2 SMA connectors.

It is possible to have a formula between the characteristic impedance and S11 and S21: Zc = R0 * sqrt((1+S11)^2-S21^2)/(1-S11)^2-S21^2))

If I apply this formula to the simulation (with a circuit simulator) of a simple 100ohms lossless line, I'm able to find exactly 100 ohms at all the frequencies.

If I apply this formula to the simulation (with a circuit simulator) of a 100ohms line surrounded by 2 short 50 ohms lines (which is equivalent to the 100ohms PCB line surrounded by 2 SMA connectors), I'm able to find 100 ohms at low frequencies and I get some peaks due to the impedance mismatch at frequencies multiple of round-trip frequency.

my problem is now when I do the same simulation with SIGRITY on the PCB microstrip line describe above, I don't get the same kind of result as the last circuit simulation.

below is the result of the simulation by SIGRITY with the "transmission line RLGC => characteristic impedance" parameter plotted.
the plot exhibit a 100 ohms characteristic impedance value (normally perturbed at high frequencies by the impedance mismatch with SMA connectors), but only after around 1MHz and a much higher value at lower frequencies.

does someone have an explanation or is it a bug?

thank you for any comment or help.

best regards

Ronic

PCB line 3D view

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  • Ronic
    0 Ronic over 3 years ago

    it seems it is simply the lossy part of the line (R and G) which changes the characteristic impedance at low frequencies.

    the mistake is to compare with the simulation of a lossless line...

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  • jillashiva
    0 jillashiva over 3 years ago

    Try Enabling the "Caliculate DC point as reference" from the Tool > options and you should see good results at lower frequencies as wel

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  • Ronic
    0 Ronic over 3 years ago in reply to jillashiva

    thank you.

    I obtain a similar curve with a characteristic impedance increase in DC but with a difference below 10-100Hz.

    with this option, the curve in low frequencies is better simulated?

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  • jillashiva
    0 jillashiva over 3 years ago in reply to Ronic

    Enabling the DC option will improve the Low frequency aspects.. Instead of the Transmission Line RLGC > Characteristic Impedance  View .. Try Converting the S to Z parameters and terminate the Port 2 with the reference Impedance ..you can do this with Matrix reduction option . 

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