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  3. Strange behavior of traponly method (MMSIM/SpectreRF)

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Strange behavior of traponly method (MMSIM/SpectreRF)

norrin
norrin over 11 years ago

Hi,

 

 I'm about to simulate a power amplifier with spectre using mmsim 10.1 and cadence ic 5141. I want to analyze if it oscillates in transient simulations. Therefore I gave an inductor a initial condition which is not 0 so that there is a stimulation.

I read the following recommandation to simulate oscillators in a cadence blog post: (http://www.cadence.com/blogs/rf/archive/2012/12/20/mmsim12-1-speed-up-transient-analysis-of-crystal-oscillators.aspx)

 "For Integration Method, select traponly. By default, when errpreset=conservative, the integration method is gear2only. However, gear2only can dampen oscillations and shouldn’t be used – you want your oscillator to oscillate! So, I recommend using either trap or traponly when simulating crystal oscillators."

 So I choose traponly and got problems with conversion. (The timestep was reduced to a few attoseconds) Even if I choose liberal as error preset. The simulation result is shown here:

First I thought there is an oscillation and zoomed in, which you see here:

  

Then I thought that there are some issues with undersampling or something like that, but if you look at the timestep, then the frequency would be higher than 500 GHz because the period of this triangle signal is about 2ps.

But I'm using a SiGe Technology with a transit frequency of 200 GHz.

 

Then I simulated the circuit using gear2 method and got the following result:

Which seems to be ok. Because nothin is oscillating at the end and the oscillation from my inductors initial condition is dampened very fast.

It also works if I set the errorpreset to conservative as I do usually. 

 

I also read in the spectre reference about the different envelope integration methods like gear2, trap, etc. But I only saw that there are different presets in the timesteps, tolerances, steadyratios and so on which doesn't help me in understanding when do I have to use which method? And how do they work. What is the problem with using traponly?

I hope anyone can help. 

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  • Frank Wiedmann
    Frank Wiedmann over 11 years ago

    You can find some more background information in http://www.kenkundert.com/docs/bctm98-MSsim.pdf (starting on page 18, with trapezoidal ringing explained on page 22) and in Ken Kundert's book "The Designer's Guide to SPICE and Spectre", see http://www.designers-guide.org/Books/dg-spice/index.html.

    I would also like to point out that the Spectre version you are using is rather old (the current version is MMSIM 13.1).

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  • Frank Wiedmann
    Frank Wiedmann over 11 years ago

    You can find some more background information in http://www.kenkundert.com/docs/bctm98-MSsim.pdf (starting on page 18, with trapezoidal ringing explained on page 22) and in Ken Kundert's book "The Designer's Guide to SPICE and Spectre", see http://www.designers-guide.org/Books/dg-spice/index.html.

    I would also like to point out that the Spectre version you are using is rather old (the current version is MMSIM 13.1).

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