• Skip to main content
  • Skip to search
  • Skip to footer
Cadence Home
  • This search text may be transcribed, used, stored, or accessed by our third-party service providers per our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy.

  1. Community Forums
  2. Custom IC Design
  3. how to determine the subthreshold process paramter?

Stats

  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 12
  • Subscribers 125
  • Views 24667
  • Members are here 0
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

how to determine the subthreshold process paramter?

MenghanSun
MenghanSun over 9 years ago

Dear all,

I have a question that i couldn't find an answer to in this forum. I wish to find out the subthreshold process paramter (sometimes referred to as process slope, subthreshold slope) of a given MOS device.

Id = u*Cox*(Vt^2)*(W/L)*exp( (VGS-Vth) / m*Vt ) * [1 - exp(-VDS/VT)]

The "m" is the subtreshold slope. I ran the DC simulation, use OPT on a MOSFET, I can find a big list of device parameters, region, self-gain, betaeff, and etc. However, I can't find the "m" the subthreshold slope.

Could anyone tell me how to find out the subtreshold slope "m" in cadence, Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

Menghan

  • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 9 years ago

    Not sure where that equation comes from - you need to remember that any such equation may only reflect a specific model, and most modern transistor models are rather more complex than this (although it doesn't look like any basic transistor models either to me, but it may just be how it's written).

    I could see that many of the "Philips" (now NXP) models (e.g. MOS11, MOS902 etc) have a parameter for subthreshold slope (this is a model parameter, called "mo" or "mor"), but there doesn't seem to be anything like that for bsim3v3, bsim4. So I suspect the model formulation doesn't have any similar parameter and it's not something the models compute and spit out either (I've not found any requests for this as an output or operating point parameter).

    So given that you didn't say which model you're using, or which simulator you're using, or which version of the tools you're using, I rather doubt this can be answered. However, even knowing that, it doesn't look to me as if the equation you've described matches any of the models (from a very quick scan through the model documentation, which is in cdnshelp) in Spectre.

    Regards,

    Andrew.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • MenghanSun
    MenghanSun over 9 years ago

    Hi Andrew,

    Thanks for the reply. I uses spectre mmsim14, virtuoso 616

    This is not a particular model. This is a general fact. For a reasonable channel length (Lmin => 500nm), in saturation, strong inversion, the mosfet exhibits square law characteristics. In subthreshold(weak inversion), the mosfet exhibits exponential characteristics like a BJT, with the addition of "nonideality factor" or "slope factor".

    If we only look at the the exponential term:

    BJT: exp{ [Vgs-VT] / [kT/q]  }

    MOSFET: exp{ [Vgs-VT] / [n*(kT/q)]  }

    This additional n term is typically around 1~1.5

    In the slide 15 in the below link, n is defined as:

    n = 1 + Cdep/Cox

    Which seems like something that would vary with operating point. Maybe I could try to Cdep and Cox in the list of operating point parameter??

     Elad Alon's notes below:

    http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/icdesign/ee240_sp10/lectures/Lecture03_MOS_Models_2up.pdf

    I'm aware of the fact that gm/Id dominates over the square law and the weak inversion model I described, but they do give design insights, and are still extensively used in papers in reference generators.

    Thank you,

    Menghan

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 9 years ago

    Unknown said:
    This is not a particular model. This is a general fact

    No, it's a model. All equations describing MOSFET behaviour are models which are an attempt to fit the physical behaviour to a certain level. The precise equations will vary from one model to another. Even in the slide you refer to, it's described as a model.

    The fact that you're using a particular model to gain design insight is fair enough, and most of us do that, but you can't necessarily expect a simulator to output a parameter which works for the particular model you're using (and is different from the model the simulator is actually using). The models in the simulator will model the subthreshold behaviour you describe, but won't necessarily do it with the equation you're describing (especially as it's incomplete).

    Regards,

    Andrew.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Arefinn
    Arefinn over 5 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Hi, I am using Cadence Virtuoso ADE L to simulate my circuit and I want to figure out the subthreshold factor. Can you help me out how to do so?

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 5 years ago in reply to Arefinn
    Arefinn said:
    Can you help me out how to do so?

    Not unless you both read the thread here (especially the last sentence in my reply to which you posted your question) and can provide a lot more information. What is this "subthreshold factor" you refer to? Which simulator and device models are you using? Which version of the tools are you using? Please provide a reference for any equation you might mention.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Arefinn
    Arefinn over 5 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

      

    and I am using the kit GPDK090

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Arefinn
    Arefinn over 5 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Cadence (R) Virtuoso (R) Spectre (R) Circuit Simulator
    Version 13.1.1.117.isr8 64bit -- 19 Jun 2014

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 5 years ago in reply to Arefinn

    You still didn't give a reference for those equations - just an image. In what text are they published? They don't look that familiar to me, and certainly don't match the bsim3v3 model equations used in GPDK090.  Presumably the reference [13] gives some more detail on this sub-threshold slope factor?

    Unfortunately most of the relevant text books I have on this are stranded in the office, so I'm having to go on memory, a bit of googling, and looking in the Spectre Circuit Simulator Components and Device Models Reference manual.

    Andrew.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Arefinn
    Arefinn over 5 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    The reference is Wang, A., Calhoun, B. H., & Chandrakasan, A. P. (2006). Sub-threshold design for ultra low-power systems. New York: Springer.

    https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007%2F978-0-387-34501-7.pdf

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 5 years ago in reply to Arefinn

    Given that key authors in chapters of that book (I'm not familiar with it, and don't have access to it) are Christian Enz and Eric Vittoz, and it also talks about the EKV model (these two are the E and V in EKV), I would have expected that maybe this equation shows up in the documentation for the EKV or EKV3 model in Spectre. It doesn't. So I don't think I can help you - you'd be trying to fit one equation against another - and given that gpdk090 uses bsim3v3 (which is a totally different approach to compact MOS modelling than EKV), it's going to be difficult.

    Andrew.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
>

Community Guidelines

The Cadence Design Communities support Cadence users and technologists interacting to exchange ideas, news, technical information, and best practices to solve problems and get the most from Cadence technology. The community is open to everyone, and to provide the most value, we require participants to follow our Community Guidelines that facilitate a quality exchange of ideas and information. By accessing, contributing, using or downloading any materials from the site, you agree to be bound by the full Community Guidelines.

© 2025 Cadence Design Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy
  • Cookie Policy
  • US Trademarks
  • Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information