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  3. IQ cross-talk: simulation artefact?

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IQ cross-talk: simulation artefact?

itos
itos over 8 years ago

Hi,

I would like to simulate I/Q crosstalk in my system (and specifically assess whether I can use 50% duty cycle which is known to be problematic for I/Q crosstalk because two branches are used at the same time).

I set up a testbench where I create a signal cos(2pi fc t)sin(2pi fi t) - sin(2pi fc t)*sin(2pi fq t) where fc=1GHz, fi=10MHz and fq=20MHz. Ideally I should see only 10 MHz in the I branch and only 20 MHz in the Q. However, I always saw signal parts in each other and while debugging I found that I even see (small) 10 MHz in the Q branch when I connect it only to a voltage source supplying cos(2pi fc t)sin(2pi fi t).

In the end I ended up with a trivial testbench like this:

The "mixer_mult" is a Verilog-A model and only contains "V(out) <+ V(in) * V(lo);". However, the effects are similar when I replace it with ideal switches using "switch" from analogLib.

The time domain shows a small signal which to my understanding should only contain the RF image. However, examining the spectrum it is confirmed that there is a peak at 10 MHz in the Q channel which is only 44dB less than the full 10 MHz in the I channel:

First I thought it may be the image rejection filter (although contradicting) but increasing its order even to 11 did not change anything.

So I went off to Simulink with the same setup and saw the peak also there. However, it was lower (-60dB). After decreasing the (fixed) step size to 100fs the peak in Simulink was reduced to -80dB. So I thought it is merely a simulation artefact, went back to Spectre and re-run the sim with reltol=1e-6, vabsol=1e-9, iabstol=1e-15. However, nothing changed (it got even slightly worse).

Well, -40dB is pretty high and about the spec so it's hard for me to believe that the simulator is having numerical issues.

And on top of that: How should I start simulating actual IQ crosstalk when not even in the ideal scenario, the leakage is "minus infinity"??

While I think that tran sim is the "golden reference" and I would like to see its results make sense;what is the "proper" way yo simulate I/Q crosstalk? I played around with "hb" but the results are even crazier, telling me that the 10MHz in the Q channel are just 14dB below the I channel ...

Thanks!!

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  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 8 years ago

    It's not clear what exactly you're simulating here or how you're analysing the results, so please contact customer support so that you can supply the design details (ideally the netlist and everything relevant). That way you can also get an AE with the time to look into this properly (this is not something I can answer just from your description without doing some experiments to emulate your setup, and realistically I don't have the time to do that currently). I suspect that would be true of anyone else in the forum - this is a detailed question which needs some experimental investigation to understand the effects you are seeing.

    Regards,

    Andrew.

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  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 8 years ago

    It's not clear what exactly you're simulating here or how you're analysing the results, so please contact customer support so that you can supply the design details (ideally the netlist and everything relevant). That way you can also get an AE with the time to look into this properly (this is not something I can answer just from your description without doing some experiments to emulate your setup, and realistically I don't have the time to do that currently). I suspect that would be true of anyone else in the forum - this is a detailed question which needs some experimental investigation to understand the effects you are seeing.

    Regards,

    Andrew.

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