• Skip to main content
  • Skip to search
  • Skip to footer
Cadence Home
  • This search text may be transcribed, used, stored, or accessed by our third-party service providers per our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy.

  1. Community Forums
  2. Custom IC Design
  3. Printing out unconventional process-specific model parameter...

Stats

  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 6
  • Subscribers 125
  • Views 11244
  • Members are here 0
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Printing out unconventional process-specific model parameter in ADE

MReza123
MReza123 over 3 years ago

Hi,

Let's say you are performing a simple DC simulation of an inverter with 2 transistors in ADE. Is there anyway you can print out certain model parameters in the Spectre's output log file which are not device-specific (i.e, the model parameters that impact simulation results but are not directly used in the 2 transistor's models). * Enabling extremeinfo doesn't help. 

My problem is that when I do simple Monte Carlo DC simulation in ADE-XL (I am sure ADE-XL settings are ok.), after finishing the simulation, I see no variation in the outputs!!! I believe that I have set the model files properly but I feel this is the most probable source of problem). It seems the simulator doesn't make any changes in mismatch parameters and a unique output is generated. Note that I can change the corner (tt-->ss etc.) and the result change as expected but MC doesn't work. I am using TSMC40.  I tried different virtuoso and spectre versions, but no luck. It works fine though with other pdks e.g., TSCM28. 

So I was hoping to get more inside by printing some flag parameters. Is it possible?

Note that I have talked to customer support and they couldn't find the source of the problem. 

  • Cancel
Parents
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 3 years ago

    If customer support couldn't help, it's even less likely that anyone can help you here given that we have even less visibility of the issue.

    I've no idea what you mean by printing out model parameters that are not device-specific (or why displaying that (whatever it means) would be useful).

    Have you got a case number? If so, I can take a look at what has been investigated so far.

    Andrew

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • MReza123
    MReza123 over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    For example, let's say there is a model parameter which is like a switch that enables statistical model (let's call it msflag). msflag is not a BSIM model parameter and it is not a MOSFET parameter, but it is defined in the model file to guide the simulator for choosing proper parameter values. The question is can you print these sorts of parameters or check their values somehow? 
    Update Case# 46571128

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 3 years ago in reply to MReza123

    As far as I can see, the case is still open and the AE suggested having a web meeting with you today (I didn't see a reply to that offer). The case was only filed today.

    I won't try to duplicate work that is in progress, and advise you to keep this up with customer support.

    I rather doubt that this is anything to do with some parameter in the subckt wrappers around the underlying model, but I think you can save that info using the allparameters choice on the Outputs->Save All (in the "Save circuit information analysis"). Most likely you're just including the wrong model files/sections and not including the right statistical parameters for the PDK you're using.

    Andrew

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • MReza123
    MReza123 over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    I replied and we had the meeting that ended an hour ago.

    I am following the procedure that pdk recommends for choosing the model files/sections. They are actually very similar between 40 nm and 28 nm and the 28 nm works like a charm. 

    I did what you said and it worked. It did printed out the parameters that I wanted. The spectre output shows that 

    totalflag_mos = 0
    globalflag_mos = 1
    mismatchflag_mos = 1

    So I can confirm that I chose the models and sections properly and this is exactly the condition that pdk recommends for the global MC simulation. 

    The MC simulation doesn't work though. Any other suggestion beside contacting the pdk vendor is highly appreciated. 

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Reply
  • MReza123
    MReza123 over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    I replied and we had the meeting that ended an hour ago.

    I am following the procedure that pdk recommends for choosing the model files/sections. They are actually very similar between 40 nm and 28 nm and the 28 nm works like a charm. 

    I did what you said and it worked. It did printed out the parameters that I wanted. The spectre output shows that 

    totalflag_mos = 0
    globalflag_mos = 1
    mismatchflag_mos = 1

    So I can confirm that I chose the models and sections properly and this is exactly the condition that pdk recommends for the global MC simulation. 

    The MC simulation doesn't work though. Any other suggestion beside contacting the pdk vendor is highly appreciated. 

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Children
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 3 years ago in reply to MReza123

    I'm not going to repeat what is being handled by customer support - so please continue to work with support and the foundry (not sure why contacting the PDK vendor is a problem). It's not a scalable solution to have an application working on something and me look at it too (I do this in my spare time, and there's only a finite amount of spare time, so repeating work that somebody else is already trying to do in support when they have greater visibility of the precise PDK, setup and environment than I do makes no sense).

    Andrew

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • MReza123
    MReza123 over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Thanks, I will contact the pdk vendor.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel

Community Guidelines

The Cadence Design Communities support Cadence users and technologists interacting to exchange ideas, news, technical information, and best practices to solve problems and get the most from Cadence technology. The community is open to everyone, and to provide the most value, we require participants to follow our Community Guidelines that facilitate a quality exchange of ideas and information. By accessing, contributing, using or downloading any materials from the site, you agree to be bound by the full Community Guidelines.

© 2025 Cadence Design Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy
  • Cookie Policy
  • US Trademarks
  • Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information