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AC analyses issue in ADE

garfieldzz
garfieldzz over 3 years ago

HI all,

when I do the ac analyses in the ADE in cadence IC 5141, I set the dc and ac magnitute properly, but I found the node current equation was not satisfied in AC simulation. As the pictures shown below, for example, the sum of the curren in v2, v3 and v4 is not zero! But they all share the same node, is something wrong in the simulation ?

Please help me out.

Thank you in advance!!

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  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 3 years ago

    The most likely issue here is that perhaps the phases of the currents are not the same, since the waveforms for each current in an AC analysis are complex. So summing the magnitudes is not really giving you a correct answer. Did you try summing the currents (e.g. IF(...)+IF(...)+IF(...) and then taking the magnitude of the result of the sum?

    Of course I'm sure there's a good reason for using a software release from 17 years ago which was last updated over 10 years ago, but that's unlikely to be the issue here.

    Andrew

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  • garfieldzz
    garfieldzz over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Hello Andrew,,

    Thank you for answering my question. I think the phase difference you pointed out in the current  is reasonable. But I don't figure out what the meaning of "e.g. IF(...)+IF(...)+IF(...)“ in your answer. Could you explain it further?I really appreciate it if you could reply.

    garfield

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  • garfieldzz
    garfieldzz over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Hello Andrew,,

    Thank you for answering my question. I think the phase difference you pointed out in the current  is reasonable. But I don't figure out what the meaning of "e.g. IF(...)+IF(...)+IF(...)“ in your answer. Could you explain it further?I really appreciate it if you could reply.

    garfield

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  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 3 years ago in reply to garfieldzz

    If you use Tools->Calculator and then on the ac tab in the Selection choices section, you click on "if" and then click on the three voltage source terminals in turn. Then press "+" in the panel on the left twice to add them together (the calculator operates using Reverse Polish notation, but assembles a normal infix expression) you'll get something like this:

    Then press the little graph icon to the right of where it says "Append" above, and it will plot (by default) the magnitude of the sum of complex currents. Alternatively you could click on "mag" or "phase" in the list of functions in the panel on the right, to explicitly take the magnitude or phase of the sum, and then plot that instead.

    Andrew

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  • ShawnLogan
    ShawnLogan over 3 years ago in reply to Andrew Beckett

    Dear garfieldzz,

    garfieldzz said:
    I think the phase difference you pointed out in the current  is reasonable. But I don't figure out what the meaning of "e.g. IF(...)+IF(...)+IF(...)“ in your answer. Could you explain it further?I really appreciate it if you could reply.

    Just to add to Andrew's correct response to help you understand garfieldzz, the currents are complex quantities having real and imaginary parts. Therefore, the sum of their magnitudes is not the same as their complex sum and its resultant magnitude. Specifically, if each of your currents is called I1, I2, and I3, then the following relatioship is NOT necessarily true;

    |(I1_real + jI1_imag)| + |(I2_real + jI2_imag)| + |(I3_real + jI3_imag)| = |(I1_real + I2_real + I3_real) + j(I1_imag + I2_imag + I3_imag)|

    Kirchoff's current law requires that:  |(I1_real + I2_real + I3_real) + j(I1_imag + I2_imag + I3_imag)| = 0

    but does not require that the sum of the magntudes of each current is 0, or |(I1_real + jI1_imag)| + |(I2_real + jI2_imag)| + |(I3_real + jI3_imag)| = 0.

    In your initial plot, you are plotting the sum of the magnitudes of each current and there is no constraint on their sum being 0.

    Does this help along with Andrew's very nice responses your understanding garfieldzz?

    Shawn

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