• Skip to main content
  • Skip to search
  • Skip to footer
Cadence Home
  • This search text may be transcribed, used, stored, or accessed by our third-party service providers per our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy.

  1. Community Forums
  2. RF Design
  3. About ports

Stats

  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 3
  • Subscribers 63
  • Views 15389
  • Members are here 0
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

About ports

analogy
analogy over 10 years ago

Lets say that you have a two port network.If the output port isn't matched to 50 Ohms, is it still safe to use output port resistance as 50 Ohms and get ZM2 ?


Secondly , if the output isn't matched, what should be the port resistance ?

Thanks.

  • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 10 years ago
    Yes, you can still use a 50 ohm port impedance and the ZM2 output on the direct plot form should give you the circuit impedance looking in from the second port. Using a 50 port impedance should be OK for most s-parameter measurements (I guess it depends on what you're trying to do).
    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • analogy
    analogy over 10 years ago

    Ok.And how about compression point ?

    So this is what happened - for a given circuit, when my output port resistance was 50 Ohms, my compression point was ~ -47dBm while as I changed output port resistance to 4K Ohms (my output impedance was ~ ) , compression point was ~ -13dBm for 50 Ohms.


    Strangely, output port resistance affects compression point.This means that somehow output port resistance affects the overall output resistance of that given circuit.


    Does it make sense ? Do I need to match my output to 50 Ohms, given that my port resistance is 50 Ohms ?

    Thanks.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 10 years ago

    That's not unexpected. The output referred compression point is telling you the output power (which is the power developed in the load port) when that output power drops by NdB from the expected linear output power (as the input power is increased). If the output of the circuit was low enough impedance and the voltage across the port not affected by the load, you would expect the output power to change significantly. If it is dependent upon the load, then it's different still. Even if you're measuring input-referred compression point, this could vary.

    What you need to measure depends on the spec of what the circuit will be driving.

    For an on-chip circuit, commonly the output will actually be a voltage-based circuit, so maybe you should be measuring voltage compression rather than power compression? If using the "xdb" analysis (compression analysis) capabilities of the hb analysis that have been introduced in the last couple of releases of MMSIM (since MMSIM13.1 if my memory is correct), this can do both voltage and power compression (it's a checkbox on the hb choose analysis form). If using the older swept based approach and direct plot form approach, you may need to do a transformation to convert the output. You may find this solution (written by me a number of years ago) useful if using an older version: 

    Regards,

    Andrew.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel

Community Guidelines

The Cadence Design Communities support Cadence users and technologists interacting to exchange ideas, news, technical information, and best practices to solve problems and get the most from Cadence technology. The community is open to everyone, and to provide the most value, we require participants to follow our Community Guidelines that facilitate a quality exchange of ideas and information. By accessing, contributing, using or downloading any materials from the site, you agree to be bound by the full Community Guidelines.

© 2025 Cadence Design Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy
  • Cookie Policy
  • US Trademarks
  • Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information