• Skip to main content
  • Skip to search
  • Skip to footer
Cadence Home
  • This search text may be transcribed, used, stored, or accessed by our third-party service providers per our Cookie Policy and Privacy Policy.

  1. Community Forums
  2. Custom IC Design
  3. PLL + PSS + PNOISE convergence

Stats

  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 17
  • Subscribers 125
  • Views 24548
  • Members are here 0
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

PLL + PSS + PNOISE convergence

HoWei
HoWei over 4 years ago

After reading most of the documentation about how to setup PSS for ring-oscillators, etc. I was able to simulate the ring-VCO with an subsequent div-by-2 in PSS with PNOISE and got reasonable results.

All the blocks are analog (spice/spectre), only the control signals are generated from Verilog-A blocks. I do see some warnings about the Verilo-A blocks.

- fvco=480M, fdiv2=240MHz --> beat-freq=240MHz, conservative, 600 harmonics, tstab=500n

- autonomous circuit: osc-node+ is the ringo-vco output net

- cmin=4fF ( to have not ideal sharp edges)

The next step towards a full PLL feedback loop simulation was to add another div-by-12 frequency divider in series to the div-by-2 --> did not achieve convergence yet, but tested the following settings

- beat-freq=20MHz, tstab=500n, maxstep=1ps (or none)

- osc-node+ is either ringvco-output(480MHz) or fbdiv12-output(20MHz), but none did converge the PSS simulation

- trap vs. gear2only

The Conv norm value is sometimes below 1, but still does not converge.

1. Any idea what I can do to achieve convergence ?

2. A collerague told me (from his experience) to set the beat-freq to 20MHz/3=6.6667MHz, but he could not tell me why this would be advantageous - do you have any idea )

The final goal is to simulate the complete PLL, which will then be a driven circuit with a reference signal (no osc-node+ required).

But first I want to achieve convergence for "ring-vco+divby2+divby12".

Attached is the spectre.out (at least I drag and dropped it into the editor, but cannot see it)  ... ?

  • Cancel
Parents
  • HoWei
    HoWei over 4 years ago

    After reading the above mentioned discussion and reading about transient "checkpoint and restart", I am not clear if the PSS simulation can reuse transient simulation results.

    As Shawn mentioned in the linked discussion above, there might be a way to start PSS with transient simulation results in steady state.

    Is this doable ?

    Can you provide me a tutorial/docu/link ?

    I searched the forum, but did not find any proper material ...

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 4 years ago in reply to HoWei

    No, PSS can't reuse transient results. You can use the save and restart with PSS, but the checkpoint needs to have been saved by the same analysis (PSS) - so you could run a stab, use the save* options to save one or more checkpoints, and restart from that. You just can't mix analyses.

    Andrew

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Reply
  • Andrew Beckett
    Andrew Beckett over 4 years ago in reply to HoWei

    No, PSS can't reuse transient results. You can use the save and restart with PSS, but the checkpoint needs to have been saved by the same analysis (PSS) - so you could run a stab, use the save* options to save one or more checkpoints, and restart from that. You just can't mix analyses.

    Andrew

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Cancel
Children
No Data

Community Guidelines

The Cadence Design Communities support Cadence users and technologists interacting to exchange ideas, news, technical information, and best practices to solve problems and get the most from Cadence technology. The community is open to everyone, and to provide the most value, we require participants to follow our Community Guidelines that facilitate a quality exchange of ideas and information. By accessing, contributing, using or downloading any materials from the site, you agree to be bound by the full Community Guidelines.

© 2025 Cadence Design Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy
  • Cookie Policy
  • US Trademarks
  • Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information